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puszysty at 04:32pm on 12/12/2009
puszysty at 04:32pm on 12/12/2009An interesting article from the New York Times a few years back, if you're interested in feminist theory: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/national/20women.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1
Speaking of feminist theory, I saw about a week ago, one of my friends' facebook status was that they were writing a paper on "whether women should be allowed to be in ministry". That feels like such a nonissue to me, I couldn't believe she was writing about it. So I asked her why anyone would say no to this, and she said some people cite 1 verse out of 1st Timothy
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
I should note here how I really don't like Paul, who wrote both Timothys, along with a few others. For those who aren't familiar with Paul, his teachings were the most highly quoted in explaining why slavery was okay and why slaves should be loyal to their masters. So yeah, not a huge fan of Paul.
And the further I think on the fact that this person was writing this essay as an assignment for her class, I note that either this professor or the school itself, but putting this out there for students to write, does think it's an issue. And not only that, but it's opening up the possibility for people to say "No, women can't be in ministry" and to be okay with that. Usually when you suggest a topic for debate, it indicates that there is a possibility of correctness in both answers. A college wouldn't assign a topic and then expect all the students to take the same side, I should think. That a college should be okay with arguing against equality for women in society really disturbs me.
Speaking of feminist theory, I saw about a week ago, one of my friends' facebook status was that they were writing a paper on "whether women should be allowed to be in ministry". That feels like such a nonissue to me, I couldn't believe she was writing about it. So I asked her why anyone would say no to this, and she said some people cite 1 verse out of 1st Timothy
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
I should note here how I really don't like Paul, who wrote both Timothys, along with a few others. For those who aren't familiar with Paul, his teachings were the most highly quoted in explaining why slavery was okay and why slaves should be loyal to their masters. So yeah, not a huge fan of Paul.
And the further I think on the fact that this person was writing this essay as an assignment for her class, I note that either this professor or the school itself, but putting this out there for students to write, does think it's an issue. And not only that, but it's opening up the possibility for people to say "No, women can't be in ministry" and to be okay with that. Usually when you suggest a topic for debate, it indicates that there is a possibility of correctness in both answers. A college wouldn't assign a topic and then expect all the students to take the same side, I should think. That a college should be okay with arguing against equality for women in society really disturbs me.
(no subject)
Women in ministry is a very hot button for many churches. It is part of the fissure of 'my' church, though the congregation I belonged to hired a woman and she was well loved. [she was quite amazing really, a very spiritual woman with a love of life and the people in it] When I lived in North Carolina my friends all belonged to a church that felt that not only could women no way no how be ministers but could not lead prayer unless there are no men available. It has been my experience that the most spiritual people I know are predominantly women.
The whole thing makes my head spin. What does being female have to do with spirituality? With being able to lead people closer to God? Or being equal, at all? It makes it incredibly difficult to believe in men as a group and their 'respect' of women at all.
Sigh.
(no subject)
I hate a lot of Paul's epistles for very similar reasons. There's a whole b**s** section somewhere else that says women shouldn't even speak in church--that if they don't understand something they should just ask their husbands when they get home. That's one of the reasons I chose the username BrennanSpeaks, btw ;)
Women in the ministry is such an issue for way too many churches, especially the more conservative ones (Catholic and Evangelical for the most part). Even in more mainstream churches like mine, where equality is written into the bylaws and policies, female pastors face discrimination from congregations, lower pay, higher standards, ect. In my denomination, women have only been ordained pastors since the 1950's, so stodgy old parishoners remember a time when women simply didn't hold those positions. The framework is there, but it takes longer to change people's mindsets.
(no subject)
It's really weird, to think about people still arguing against female ministers, because where I'm from, the towns are so small and so far apart that often what happens is churches of the same denomination in different towns will hire husband-and-wife minister teams. That way, the husband can preach at one or two churches, the wife can preach at one or two others, and all the congregations can pool their resources to pay for one parsonage and two salaries instead of three, four, or more. Thirty years ago, a female preacher probably would've been a big deal; now, necessity makes it so nobody even really bats an eyelash.
I'm curious what class your friend is writing this for, because one side of me says, of course the argument that women can't be in the ministry is stupid. Then the other side of me, the side that's still coming off thinking about constitutional law too much, is thinking, well, religions should be allowed to have whatever qualifications for ministers that they want, never mind if they make any sense or not.
So I guess my stance is, if the argument is whether I can find a reason why *my* church, which I at least theoretically have some say in and definitely have influence in insofar as if they do anything I disagree with too much, they won't be *my* church anymore, should treat women differently when it comes to ministry, that's a big "no." If the argument is should any religion be allowed to determine that they don't believe women should be in ministry...well, yes, they should, because my analysis in that case has nothing to do with whether I think it's a dumb idea or not and everything to do with whether I think people should be allowed to think things that I and perhaps even a majority of the population agree are rather silly.
(no subject)
I couldn't say what class she did it for. The college itself a really religious school, the kind that I don't think would like to get too objective in regards to church politics. All her status said was "Writing a debate paper on whether or not women should be in ministry." Which kinda sounds general to me.
(no subject)
Ix-nay on the omen-way in the inistry-may! The magic man in the sky doesn't like pussy, and you do NOT want to piss him off.
Why else do you think it's been 2000 years since he last got freaky?