(no subject) [puszysty]

I believe in God. I believe God is good and perfect and that he created all mankind.

I do not believe in relgion.

Christians believe that the only way to heaven is to believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God and savior. Since Christians are the only ones who believe that Jesus was the son of God and that he died on the cross and rose again, this implies that only Christians (well, at least those who have Jesus in their heart) can go to heaven.

Let's go back to my belief, one common in more than just Christianity, that God is perfect and created mankind. If this is so God must love all mankind. If he loves us all, why would he allow only a small select population be saved? Why would you bake a whole batch of cupcakes, eat one, and throw the rest out? Maybe someone would say, well God only created certain mankind. So who created all the rest of them? Mankind? That's the chicken and the egg question, it can't be answered.
Even Christian doctrine provides evidence to the contrary- "For God so loved the world..." Not jews. Not gentiles. Not Israelis. The world. Everyone.

In addition, it is a common belief in Christianity (and maybe others) that God wishes that we serve him and worship him. Humans have free will to choose to do this or not. But if a human chooses to worship God, why should it matter how he worships? Going back to the cupcakes, why does it matter which one you take out of the pan first if they are all coming out of the pan anyway? So whether it be done in a mosque, in a church, in the privacy of one's home, why would the one person be rewarded and the other punished even though they are doing the same thing?

It seems to me that a lot of institutionalized religion is just a way to unite a culture, and in many ways control it. Some beliefs seem to me not to serve any real divine purpose- don't eat meat on Fridays, women should be the property of the man, etc etc. When you read a lot of doctrine, it contradicts itself in places. If they tell you to do totally opposite things, how can they both be the will of God? Even within religion, its rediculous the amount of sects some of them have, but what purpose do they serve? The sects just came from the fact that one group didn't like how another group ran their church. It has nothing to do with worshipping God at all, it seems to be just a way of uniting people that have the same belief of how to run a church.

By the way, my last post was for classroom purposes, please ignore it.

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I'm sorry if somethingf happened today! I do know one thing, a real Christian would not look down on anyone else who happened to believe something different because it is not treating the other person like you would yourself. The Golden Rule. I know where you are coming from though steph....

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That is a theological issue that I think most Christians, and indeed most people, probably deal with at some time. Why do so many religions say that people will not go to heaven (or whatever term they may use) if he is all good and all loving? Different religions and denominations handle this question differently. My answer to the question deals with my ideas on free choice. I think the concept between going to heaven and going to hell is a matter of our choice. I think God even made it relatively easy too. In sending his son Jesus to earth and having him die on the cross he made the issue of salvation one of faith and love. I know this is one point where Christians have a dispute and this leads to a lot of what I consider to be misconceptions. I believe that we are called to follow Jesus teachings as an extension of our love for him and our faith in him, just as we would do whatever we could for any other loved one. What I hear from people are questions like, "Will I go to hell if I... ?" or "Do people who do this go to hell?" and I think they are barking up the wrong tree. There are obviously moral precepts that I think believers should follow, but I do not think that a tally of the good and bad things one has done during their life is what gets a person into heaven, I think it is the integrity of their heart.

The question that extends from this is why does there need to be a choice at all? My personal explanation for this (which has no Biblical basis to the best of my knowledge, it is a rationalistic viewpoint) is that God created us with the hope that we would choose to love him. It is meaningless for him to force us to love him (as some basically claim when they talk about pre-destination). I also think that taking in humans that are intentionally dirty and unclean would taint heaven in a sense (in essence almost tainting God). I'm not saying that only perfect people go to heaven, but I am saying that I think those that go are "cleansed by the blood of the Lamb" as the popular phrase says. Personally, I have considered the possibility that God is going to cleanse all people and that the reason for moral teachings in the Bible is to keep us somewhat in line. I don't really think this line of thought is accurate though because I don't really think of a benevolent God as one that would be prone to lying (if indeed one interprets the Bible as the word of God as I do). It's possible that since he is the creator of moral authority then he could use it in a way that he knows is for the good of all, but I still don't really buy into that line of thought. As far as people that are never told about Jesus and don't really have this "choice" that I spoke of, I think I'm going to take the stance of one Methodist minister and say, "I don't know." I've heard different views on this and the literal Biblical interpretation seems to indicate that the only way to heaven is through Jesus...

Next issue that you brought up: different denominations and religions. First of all I disagree with your argument that all people are worshipping the same God when they prey. Some religions are obviously contradictory in principle and thus associating a common God with them becomes extremely difficult and I think incorrect. In terms of denomination, I agree with you in that I don't think that style of worship really makes a difference (note: I still distinguish between who they are praying to when I talk about style, but how is not a big issue to me). There are some people that will argue that God has a particular way that he likes to be worshipped, or that it is important to be in communion with all of the believers of all time by worshipping in the same way, or that fellowship and communion with other believers is vital to the perpetuation of faith. I don't really buy the first explanation that God has a certain way he likes to be worshipped. The second one is a Catholic view, and I only have a basic understanding of it so I won't comment too much on it, but I don't really see much of a Biblical basis for it. The third one is observed in a number of denominations, but I'm not really sure what to think of it. In the Bible there is often times an emphasis put on the body of believers and the interaction with other Christians, but at the same time I have difficulty believing that someone without other believers around is invalidated because of that.

Anywho, I am getting a little bit off the point I wanted to make, I think there is a good reason for denominations. Several different denominations have theological precepts that do not agree and in some cases come into such conflict that it is difficult to reconcile them within one united body. Thus I think the Christian church has taken on a multifaceted role in the world. The disagreements cause tensions and sometimes open hostility between the denominations, but personally I see each of the branches working for Christ in their own way or serving their own purpose. I'm not saying God wants Christians to be in conflict with eachother, but I am saying that the way that it has worked out seems to bear an amazing resemblance to the body analogy where the body of Christ fulfills numerous roles as his representatives in the world. Along these lines I am not one that is particularly opposed to ecumenism, the bringing together of churches. I also see the inherent danger in this though. There are Christian sects that I think do contain inherent and blatant examples of heretical teaching that may destroy any universal church it becomes a part of. Even within my own denomination I see examples of practices and teachings that I am almost ashamed of. Although at the same time the enmity between the denominations has hindered it's effectiveness, and perhaps even tainted the message that we are meant to give to others.

Another point that you brought up that I am probably twisting to fit into a point I want to meet is, "'For God so loved the world...' Not jews. Not gentiles. Not Israelis. The world. Everyone." I am in complete agreement with this statement. On the base level I think that God loves everyone and when people say, "Jesus hates sinners," I think they are making a fundamental error. I think that God has an innate love for all people but that he absolutely abhors sin. The point I want to make with your statement though is that the message of Christ is for all people. There is no one that is excluded from his caring and his message of salvation. Some people on the contrary insist that there are groups that should not be included and should in fact be shunned. One example is Clayton saying that Muslims are really just Christian heretics, but that's Clayton for you... The example that really makes me mad is that many people think the Jews are to be excluded from Jesus message... although, I suppose I have already told a number of people about this and I'm already very long winded on this comment, so I will cut short my discussion and say that Jews can love Jesus too!

I'm sorry that I got off topic in places and that I may have missed discussing certain points you brought up, but if there is anything else that you would like me to rant on about feel free to ask. Otherwise I hope that something in that long rant about makes sense or has in some way enriched your view of God. I hope that you have a wonderful day and ttfn!